Should Christians pray for Steven Carr?

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Permalink Reply by Steven Carr on July 7, 2009 at 3:10pm

Don't worry. People who say they'll pray for me rarely do.

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Permalink Reply by Steven Carr on July 7, 2009 at 3:55pm

'Firstly Gods shows us what is right and what is wrong, and what sin is.'


Is it a sin to go at more than 30 miles per hour in a 30 mph zone?

If it is not a sin to go at more than 30 miles per hour in a 30 mph zone, then is it wrong for us to speed in a car?

How do I know what is right and what is wrong if God won't tell me the correct speed limit for the roads I drive on?

BTW, no Christian has ever received eternal life. They all die, just like non-believers do. Heaven is just something somebody made up.

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Permalink Reply by Tim on July 7, 2009 at 5:19pm

Caral said: "So for arguments sake.."

But then forgot to actually construct an argument!

If God chooses every one of the Elect (given that is what the term means it'd be hard to get into the Elect without God choosing you) in what way are they free to respond to his call? You used the words "irresistible" and "compel" - that doesn't sound very free to me. Sounds like divine coercion.

To return to my original point, why spend time and energy praying for someone if they might not even be elected by God to know him? What does praying for unbelievers actually do? The apostle Paul taught that their minds were blinded by "the god of this age" so that the gospel was veiled to those who are perishing (eg. not being elected/saved) 2 Cor 4:3-4

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Permalink Reply by Tim on July 7, 2009 at 6:46pm

Caral said: "IF is the operative word. I don't know. How do you or me, know that Steven Carr has NOT be chosen to be the elect of God. He may well be one of the elect and therefore that's why I pray."

Exactly. Only God knows "those who are his". So why does he need his earthly followers to ask him who to save?

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Permalink Reply by GARFIELD (da kats wiskers] on July 7, 2009 at 4:14pm

Not half! all the moreso I say then we wouldnt get these rotten Godless posts !

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Permalink Reply by Steven Carr on July 7, 2009 at 5:37pm

Carr is a very common name, and I am not related to any of them.

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Permalink Reply by Richard Morgan on July 7, 2009 at 6:13pm

Tim - for a Christian it is natural to want to pray for those who are suffering.
Steven Carr exposes so much of his pain here, how could we not pray for him?
At first I thought he was just an immature pain in the neck.
But no longer.
For me it is humanly impossible to remain indifferent to the psychological pain and anguish that SCarr lays before us on an almost daily basis.
And when I pray for someone in pain, I don't say, "My heart's desire is that S.Carr becomforted in his suffering, but for crying out loud, don't mess around with his free agency!!"

These half-baked pseudo-theological considerations are, alas, a speciality of people who neither experience nor believe them. But that's ok.
It's even kind of cute, in away : "Hey, Mister Christian, I, the atheist, will tell you what you believe and what it means to you. because clearly you can't know for yourself."

O RLY?

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Permalink Reply by Tim on July 7, 2009 at 6:51pm

"Suffering"? "Pain"?
Assume much?

Talking of assumptions, I like how you paint me as someone with neither experience or belief? Who said I was an atheist?

What I believe isn't at issue here. It's the simplistic nonsense that says God needs people to pray for Steven Carr in order for God to save Steven Carr.

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Permalink Reply by Richard Morgan on July 7, 2009 at 7:16pm

Tim : "It's the simplistic nonsense that says God needs people to pray for Steven Carr in order for God to save Steven Carr."
Of course.
But you surprise me here.
How unlike you to state the obvious.

Who said I was an atheist?
Good question.
I'll stop assuming then : Are you an atheist? An agnostic? A Reformed Barcelona Supporter?

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Permalink Reply by Richard Morgan on July 7, 2009 at 8:25pm

Tim : ""Suffering"? "Pain"?
Assume much?"

I wasn't going to reply to that, but I fact I can't let that slip by.

I was a teacher for many years. For most of that time in schools in "problem" areas.
I presume we all know what that means.
I must have dealt with hundreds of teenagers (from a variety of social and cultural backgrounds.)
And I recognise pain when I see it.
SCarr has the same behaviour as those troubled adolescents:
Always lash out.
Always mock.
Always reply with scorn.
Always express hatred and superiority.
Always try to hurt (people in pain often feel impelled to cause pain).
Always twist the words of others.
Always seek the weak points.
Always ignore what is said.
And (here is the key)
Always keep coming back for more.
REPEAT ABOVE AD INFINITUM

If you believe that a reasonably well-balanced person can behave like that, then I can only assume that you and I are not living on the same planet, Tim.

I still have a scar on my left hand. A souvenir of a troubled teenager in a school on the outskirts of Liverpool, almost forty years agol. He and his family became close friends.
The other teachers wanted to see him behind bars as quickly as possible.
I was able to help him because I ignored the behaviour, and heard his pain.
That was all it took.
I will not do S.Carr the injustice of ignoring the pain he goes at such lengths to lay before us.
Sometimes when he snipes, I snipe back. I'm not necessarily very proud of that.

I am also convinced that when I pray for Steven to be blessed, in that same moment the Lord is working on my heart and my attitudes.
He wants me to want for Steven to be blessed.
Christianity is a message of relationships. Healing relationships.
Steven is entitled to our prayers and our love.
Even if he leaves some of us with a few scars.
That's okay.
Name of the game.

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Permalink Reply by lisa Mc on July 7, 2009 at 7:23pm

id just like to add that im praying for Steven too!

Tim your answers assume a athiest status...God desires that ALL are saved...and that we should pray for those that arent...i was once and athiest well more of an idol worshiper and thought it was all nonsense..now i was saved by the Grace of God through Jesus Christ...the free will is that we choose to respond to Gods call..most of us drag our feet..because to admit we are sinners is the hardest thing to do..it takes away most of our self believe..and the nonsense we have built up as our character and of course some never want to change..cause it mean giving up what they want which actually is sin..so they hold on to it for dear life..God does have an enemy!!!...now all ill say is i dont have fancy words..but i desire that steven and yourself..open your hearts a little to let the truth in..its your choice..and yes the Lord does leave those who choose not to listen, to their own devices..this does not disprove God..thisjust shows that there is a battle of good and evil going on!!.

im sure your find some answer to rip mine apart..but i can only tell you my experience.

When you have experienced the awesome touch of Love and Grace when you accept Jesus..you desire that all who are unsaved have it too..thats why its called the GOOD NEWS..its free to ALL..now some of us..do get a little carried away..etc...but we are afterall just human desiring that you experience what we have.

blessings
lisa
xx

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Permalink Reply by Joliver on July 7, 2009 at 10:09pm

I think there is atheism, and atheism. Many people I know are "atheists" in that they lack a belief in supernatural beings, but that is because they are simply uninterested in those sorts of questions. That's fine. There are also a lot of atheists who have thought and read on the matter extensively, and it seems to me that this is a rather different sort of atheist. This always makes me wonder what sort of atheist people were when so many say " I used to be an atheist"...

Just thought I would throw that in there! :)

Oh, and the FSM now has their eye on you Steven!

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