Online discussion and chat forum of Premier Christian Radio
Butter Knife Boy Stevie
Stevie is an atheist who likes to make various claims regarding the Christian God and ethics. Yet Stevie suffers from insurmountable worldview problems, after all Stevie suffers from moral paralysis given his admitted atheism and relativism. Somehow, Stevie will want us to know that the Christian God, the Holy Trinity is a monster and is immoral.
However, in his system of thought Stevie's moral claims are merely groundless opinions. Who cares what someone says when the results of their moral reactions are simply the way the neurons fire from his brain? Why should my neurons firing match the firing neurons of Captain Steve and The Super Skeptic Friends? Why does any Christian? Finally, why does the Christian God need to align to the system of morality knowns as Steve-ism? Who cares if Stevie says that 'society' has said the Christian God is 'evil' or a 'monster'? Society is simply a collection of moral opinions, what happens when those opinions change? Did the Americans in the sixties rightly kill african americans? Did the Nazis rightly decimate the Jewish population? The Germans were largely in favor of Jew and the anti-Semitism of the day was very high. Our friend Steve and his 'moral' system would have us believe that it was right, afterall Americans and Germans both majorly agreed that Blacks and Jews were dangerous. So, now that God is at the center of the moral judgment qua society Mr. Fundy Steve would have us believe that God can validly be called 'evil'.
Can Stevie demonstrate on what basis my God can be judged when his moral system is reduced to relativism? Can He also demonstrate on what basis my God *must* obey moral imperatives? Even if Stevie can establish a moral system of which my God is subject, he needs to demonstrate why my God must be subject to these extra-universal moral imperatives.
Until this is done, Stevie just looks like a ranting crack head. He needs a fix from the theists so he comes to get his 'apologetic' fix with his lame arguments. If I was out for a fix, your drugs would be cheap Stevie, you should improve them.
However, in his system of thought Stevie's moral claims are merely groundless opinions. Who cares what someone says when the results of their moral reactions are simply the way the neurons fire from his brain? Why should my neurons firing match the firing neurons of Captain Steve and The Super Skeptic Friends? Why does any Christian? Finally, why does the Christian God need to align to the system of morality knowns as Steve-ism? Who cares if Stevie says that 'society' has said the Christian God is 'evil' or a 'monster'? Society is simply a collection of moral opinions, what happens when those opinions change? Did the Americans in the sixties rightly kill african americans? Did the Nazis rightly decimate the Jewish population? The Germans were largely in favor of Jew and the anti-Semitism of the day was very high. Our friend Steve and his 'moral' system would have us believe that it was right, afterall Americans and Germans both majorly agreed that Blacks and Jews were dangerous. So, now that God is at the center of the moral judgment qua society Mr. Fundy Steve would have us believe that God can validly be called 'evil'.
Can Stevie demonstrate on what basis my God can be judged when his moral system is reduced to relativism? Can He also demonstrate on what basis my God *must* obey moral imperatives? Even if Stevie can establish a moral system of which my God is subject, he needs to demonstrate why my God must be subject to these extra-universal moral imperatives.
Until this is done, Stevie just looks like a ranting crack head. He needs a fix from the theists so he comes to get his 'apologetic' fix with his lame arguments. If I was out for a fix, your drugs would be cheap Stevie, you should improve them.
Replies are closed for this discussion.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Javier Hernandez on -
Steve outline your ethics. Who cares if you were a Christian or not. I'm of the opinion you never came to true saving faith, but I don't care to debate that. Deal with what I said, and ignore the rest.
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Permalink Reply by Stevie on -
Javier,
Sorry this has gotten well off-topic - although the tone of that debate is something you initiated. The other argument is complete BS but spilled over from elsewhere. I don't think there's any mileage in trying to rescue the debate here.
I argued that morality is a product of society as much as Mars bars, Mickey Mouse, the rich, the poor and all the other products of our society. The origins are a mixture of social, historical, biological and ideological (I think religion and the Golden Rule would be covered by that). You are claiming absolute morals from your god who is himself not subject to any morality.
Your argument seems to be "that without god everything is permissible" but anything is permissible to your god. If you suddenly woke tomorrow and realized there is no god do you think you would rape, murder and commit other despicable acts? I doubt you would. Why are these acts wrong? Because society says they are - for any of those reasons I gave above. For you that is "moral relativism" but to me that just accepts reality.
Oh and sorry but I don't think there's much merit in discussing my own personal ethics because that will take us off-topic.
Stevie
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Permalink Reply by Stevie on
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Its not a lie to say I don't believe in your god. I don't believe in any gods.
Since you seem respectful of the moderator's rulings I am going to make an exception to a personal rule and appeal to the moderator because I am sick of you slandering me and calling me a liar when the only falsehoods in our exchanges are those you've been caught out on. I'll trust to the moderator to make a suitable ruling and I'll abide by that. Lets hope you can do that.
Oh, and I'm still waiting for that public apology on the quotation you mis-attributed to me - whilst again falsely claiming I am a liar.
Stevie
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Permalink Reply by Janice Moorcroft on -
Stevie,
It saddens me, but doesn't surprise me much that you have rejected christianity on the evidence of the way some of the people here have reacted to you. Please try and look beyond the mess which is the church and see the Saviour who is the head of it and loves us dispite ourselves!!
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Permalink Reply by Premier Community Administrator on -
The Moderator has made a decision to close this discussion as the content continues to violiate the Premier Community Don't No. 4 "No Personal Insults - Debate the issue not the person".
We would like to remind all members about the Premier Community Do No. 1: Treat others the way you'd like to be treated.
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