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BNP Bashing is unChristian
The British National Party is a legal, moderate, and legitimate political party which is making progress in elections and now has over 100 Councillors, one London Assembly member, and two MEPs. Most of the people who attack the BNP are opposed to free debate and dislike both moral standards and Christianity, and have sought to marginalise our Christian heritage whilst paving a way for extremism from the Middle East. What is done to the BNP now could be done to Christians later. Christians would do well to stand up for the rights of the BNP to free debate and to seriously consider their views, which reflect up to 70% of the people of Britain, on many issues, including that of mass immigration.
Tags: BNP, persecution, politics
Views: 124
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Imago Dei on
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Support of the BNP is simply contrary to Christian morality.
No bashing just rejection of the BNP and all it stands for
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Permalink Reply by Tony Clements on -
any "bashing" of any political party is simply political debate.
It's neither Christian nor unchristian.
However, since the BNP is opposed to so many views held dear to so many (including the vast majority of Christians), it seems a legit target.
I do agree that the bashing should be done on the basis of policies, not personalities. But that's easily enough done.
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Permalink Reply by Revd RMB West on
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You will have to ask the BNP on that, not me. I suspect not, however, because the BNP is a secular political party, despite the respect that it has recently aquired for the official doctrine and faith of the Church of England and the Church of Scotland. It would be helpful if the priests and ministers of the aforesaid Churches held to the faith which they professed at their ordination rather than adopt the bestial policies that they are doing, regarding abominable activities, and the promotion in England of the horrifying Islamic sharia. All evangelical Christians, and many Roman Catholics, will be greatly concerned and worried at the lack of faith they now see in our two established (State) Churches.
But the discussion is should we bash the BNP. My view is that we should allow them to put forward their views and to speak in their own defence. This is called natural justice or due process; it is also liberal democracy and plain common sense and free speech. With regard to the BNP, we have had too little of that lately. People have said to me that we must deny the BNP the oxygen of publicity. This is wrong because Justice can only be done by it being seen (and heard) to be done.
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Permalink Reply by Revd RMB West on
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This is not the case! When the Labour or Conservatives get bashed, by each other, we each hear and see them speak in their own defence. But when it comes to the BNP, the BNP are explicitly denied the oxygen of "speaking in their own defence", due to the "no platform for the BNP policy" of Jack Straw. This, at once, short-cuts democratic debate in a free and open society; and it is being done, not by the BNP but, by the opponents of the BNP! Shame on them!!! In such specific cases, who are the real fascists: the ones who deny this fundamental right to our fellow citizens or the ones they accuse of fascism.
I think that a lot of people would be a lot happier if this mistreatment finally ceased. If the establishment parties can do it to one group (the BNP), they can, and will, do it to others (evangelical Christians, and Roman Catholics.)
Where has the right of free speech gone to in modern Britain? Where is their (and our) right to speak in own own defence gone? Where is our right to do the same against the filth and smut being put across by the BBC? Shame on you!!!
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Permalink Reply by Revd RMB West on
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No: are you not being evasive? You are quite entitled to reject the BNP and all that you think it stands for. But it is more than that because in the process, the BNP's opponents, have short-circuited open and free debate, and damaged the infrastructure of our democracy thereby. People are really quite upset by the race and diversity laws which have been passed which, they feel, has ended the freedom to say how we think, and feel, in our own country. Many servicemen who fought in WWII are now members of the BNP, for these and similar reasons.
As far as I am aware, a Christian should support national identity and survival, and national independence, where possible. Christianity is consistent with and conducive towards patriotism and civic duty. Extreme nationalism, no; a moderate and reciprocating nationalism, yes!
God save the Queen! And may God save us from some of the views of her Archbishop of Canterbury.
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Permalink Reply by Revd RMB West on
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Hi Melody,
We meet again. I do not think the wish to preserve one's own people is racism. If I may say so, this is where you are so terribly confused and where you have become what you most hate: a racist yourself. I know that you feel strongly about injustices perpetrated by white or British people against others in the past, and a good example of that would be the hideous trade in negro slaves. But my evangelical forebears were foremost in ending that wicked and evil disgrace to mankind; and what a great history it was in ending it. But racism is the destruction, not the preservation of races, by what the BNP is oppossed to: mass invasion levels of foreign immigration. You cannot be in favour of that injustice, can you, when you are so fervent in opposing other injustices? It seems to me that, in your fervour, you have lost all impartiality, objectivity and balance. Even 55% of Black Minority Ethnic (BME) people now agree with the BNP's policy on immigration, that it should end.
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Permalink Reply by Revd RMB West on
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Hi Melody,
We meet yet again. Certainly, I am not a Fascist or a racist and I do not think I have met one, yet, in the BNP; although I do know and speak to BNP leaders quite a lot. My political philosophy is a mixture of liberalism, moderate nationalism/nationism, and conservativism. My "extreme" views are that I am a Creationist. That means that even you, Melody, are made in the image of God and that you are not the outcome of 50 million accidents! Smile!
I have had the privilege of lecturing on the Holocaust and concluding that the Nazi race-genocide of the Jews was an example of "absolute evil". And it was. But my left-wing students did not seem to think so because they were not sure about the existence of objective evil! Their gripe about the Holocaust was not that it was wrong but that it was right-wing! They had a similar relativistic attitude to Lenin's class-genocide of 6 million Kulaks in 18 months. That is what moral relativism has done to modern Britons. It is awful. Moral values are important and, if we are serious about them, we must address the issue of abortion, killing on an industrial scale. This horror is supported by the three main political parties who have each been responsible for the current Holocaust against our young in the womb. We must do much more to change the law and save the young.
I do not know much about the Italian chap you have in the video. Mr Nick Griffin MEP is the one to speak to on that, but he is now in Brussels and Strasbourg most of the time. I am committed to the preservation and restoration, as the case may be, of British democracy. As far as I can tell - and I meet a lot of them - most, if not all, members of the BNP, that I know, are for the same.
Your clip is an interesting one but I am not sure about what point, if any, it is trying to make.
The DUP are co-operating with Sinn Fein but does that mean they agree with them? So I am not sure what the clip is supposed to prove. Churchill allied himself with Stalin. So does that make Churchill a Communist and Stalin a British MP?
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Permalink Reply by Revd RMB West on
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Excellent! I agree with you. Eve is the mother all living and Moses, Israel's greatest nationalist, married an Ethiopian, a black woman. I have never held that inter-racial wedlock is wrong or that it is necessarily inconsistent with ethno-nationalism. I have got a friend in the ministry who has just wedded a black girl. He got a lot of stick from his sons, but none from me. And yet, like Moses, he supports the BNP! You think we have got somethng against black people... ...and no matter how many times we tell you, you still come back to the same old nonsense. The BNP is as anxious to preserve African national identity as it is to preserve British national identity. But note that Moses did not bring the whole extended family over. Moderation in all things, Melody; nor did Moses seek to obliterate Jewish national identity by a mass migration of Cushites. That would have gone against Genesis 10, 11: 1-9.
The video against the BNP is well produced but is perhaps a little misguided, as I believe you are, from your stance, as to what the BNP is really about. The problem is that you are confusing and conflating, in my view, a legitimate and moderate nationalism, with an extreme and hideous form of authoritarian nationalism that none of us, in the BNP, would want to see in Britain, or anywhere.
But thankyou for your contribution, this time: I have found your appeal to the Word of God heartening and extremely edifying.
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Permalink Reply by Revd RMB West on
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Hi Melody,
The age of miracles is not over as we are starting to agree on some things, at any rate.
We do need a healthy debate on the state that this country is in, and that debate must include immigration. But who is going to give us that debate?
So long as you are happy with an open and free debate, and with both sides being able to give their viewpoint, then I am happy too! I got the impression that you were against free debate because many are, who oppose the BNP, and its right to put its views across. Jack Straw, the Labour Party, Stop the BNP, our new 'Hate' laws, are all in favour of closing down debate and forcing mass invasion on us, and all.
Oppossing the views or policies of the BNP, in debate and without violence, is fine with me. What has incensed me is the unwillingness, on the part of many of the BNP's opponents, to allow the BNP to peacefully organise and to peacefully put its side of the case; and to close down debate with those words which preclude arguement: "racist", "fascist", "revisionist" and so on.
If we can go beyond that, many in Britain will be re-assurred as to the security of our democracy. But this is BNP policy; it is not upheld by the major parties.
As a Conservative Disrict Councillor I quite frequently came across this unwillingness, from party hacks, to open up freedom of debate. That is why my branch, South Holland and the Deepings, upheld me 80:20 when I chose to share a platform with the BNP chairman in February 2006. Central Office then blew it by overriding the decision of the local branch to back me as a democratic Conservative; and then I fled to the BNP for refuge on 14th May 2006.
What worries me about the main political parties is that they are not committed to this kind of debate. Since when in recent history have they respected public opinion, or the public?
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Permalink Reply by Revd RMB West on
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The BNP is a political party, not a Church.
It is quite right for me to refer you to my previous answer. The Chairman is the proper person to ask for a considered view on that question. I have given you what my "suspicions" or "beliefs" are but you will appreciate that I cannot do more than that. The BNP has members in it who are Jewish, who are secularist, who are evangelical Christians, and who are Roman Catholics. We may also have some Greek Orthodox Christians in the BNP. I certainly hope so.
Melody, we are beginning to differ again. The question is not, surely, what the BNP were at one time but what they are now. That is the question. You have a very decided view on their core beliefs. Christmas was once a heathen festival but for most of us now it is either a secularised one or a Church festival. Most of our Reformers had indeed a background steeped in the Roman Catholicism which was prevalent at that time. But they gave us something very different to what they were brought up in.
What is important, from a belief point of view, is not what someone has come from but what they are now. As for Mr Griffin's roots, his father was a Conservative with Iain Duncan Smith and Edgar, Nick's dad, was a veteran of WWII.
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Permalink Reply by Revd RMB West on
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Dearly beloved brother in Christ,
It is good to interact with you as a Jewish Evangelist. However, I think that you are wrong on every point and have manifested certain Nazi traits. This will take some time to explain but do you remember our Lord warning people to remove the beam from their own eye, so that they may see clearly the speck that is in their brother's eye (Matthew 7: 3,4).
In attacking the BNP's entho-specific membership criteria you are attacking the same ethno-specific " law of return criteria" which is the basis for the existence of the modern State of Israel. So, is the modern State of Israel racist, according to you, or is it that the God of Moses has ordained that we should live as nations within our nations (Acts 17: 26, 27). Would you wipe Israel off of the map because of its ethno-specific "law of return" criteria? What about the ethno-specific membership criteria for over 70 Black Minority Ethnic (BME) groups, many of them recieving Government sponsorship. Don't the native people of Britain, likewise, have a right to organise and associate on ethno-specific lines, just as all the other groups have? Who will speak for them? And what about the ethno-specific criteria for "positive action" with regard to BMEs in the non-BNP parties? So you want to see the fundamental right of freedom of association/disassociation obliterated for our political parties, so that they may be absorbed to the mores of the all-powerful New Labour state? Where does that leave civil society? Who is racially discriminating now, not me.
The difference between bashing the BNP and bashing the other political parties is that there is this "No platform policy" for the BNP, but not for anyone else. I am sorry, but this is against the British sense of justice: that every person and party has a right to speak in its own defence. Who is being the Nazi now, not me.
You use the word "racism" but do you know where this word comes from, and why it is so frequently used?
Apparently, it comes from the Far Left who disagree with the teaching of the Hebrew Scriptures: that the one race, or stock, of mankind is now divided by God, not man, to live as nations and not as one mass. I have to keep quoting Genesis 10, 11: 1-9 and Psalms 86: 9; but these holy Scriptures are continually being overlooked and disdained. But they are the very Word of God. I could add Deuteronomy 32: 8, again from God most High, through His servant Moses. Nations are Biblical, they are not racist! The attempt to wipe them out is Communism, not Christianity.
I agree that there has to be some limitation on freedom of speech. By the common law of England, which got it right, we are not - and should not be - free to incite, or exercise, violence on others - something the opponents of the BNP quite often do (witness the recent hammer attack on a BNP member and the egg-throwing at Nick Griffin, not condemned by the real Nazis in the media and establishment). And we are not, and should not be, free to defame individuals. But to try to get the law to police the emotions (hate/love) or speech of citizens, which falls short of incitement to violence, is a direct challenge to British democracy and an affront to our inalienable freedoms under God. It is a form of illiberalism which will be turned against you, in time. It is corroding our democracy and has already led to adverse discrimination against the freedom of expression of evangelical Christians and Roman Catholic adoption agencies.
Mr Nick Griffin certainly did doubt or question some of the facts of the Nazi race-genocide against the flock of Israel. But that was as a "student". He was not involved in the Holocaust. He was born in 1959, when the Holocaust ended in 1945. You talk as though he was involved in the Holocaust and was in denial of a crime that he had committed. Many of my left-wing students have denied the evil of the Holocaust because they have been infected with moral relativism and do not believe that anything is actually, really evil. Mr Griffin, to his credit, has never done that. Most left-wing lecturers are unconcerned about the tragedy of left-wing genocides. They never deny them, of course. They do not have to; they are never mentioned. We need to bear in mind the reality of evil; that it is not confined to one political party; and that it can extend from any side of the political spectrum, not least the idealistic side. Though the anti-Semitic race-genocide was dreadful, on any account and by any standards, the awful fact is that in many respects it was not unique. We are having a genocide, now, in our own country against the unborn; and what are the politicians of the main political parties doing against this harvest of death? Nothing!!! As well as remembering what happened, between 1941-1945, we must not attribute it to the teaching of God in Genesis; and we must also address what is happening now.
As to your assetion that the BNP have an openly racist agenda may of I remind you of the Law of Return. The view of my Conservative colleagues is that the BNP are not saying anything controversial. And these are people who have been around for a lot longer than Mr Griffin.
Lastly, you have said that our freedom ends when it is likely to cause damage to another person. That would include homosexual relations between consenting adults in private. I do not agree with your principle or premise here. It is one of these rationalistic principles that is difficult to apply in practise. It is far too broad in its sweep and raises the question of who is to police it - the State, the Church, the Synagogue. If we give these insitutions too much power we will have no freedom left. Who is proposing the Stasi State now, not me.
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Permalink Reply by Martin Peter Clarke on
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Lenin ordered 100 kulaks to be killed.
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